You are listening to My Freedom Grove podcast with Gretchen Hernandez, episode 168.

Welcome to My Freedom Grove Podcast, your calm space for practical help to get your dream business up and running while being authentically you and taking care of your mental health. I'm your host, Gretchen Hernandez. I'm so glad you're here!

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Hi, My Strong Friends. 

Hey, have you ever gotten frustrated because somebody else isn't doing what you want them to do? 

Or they're not doing it the way you think they should be doing it? 

Yeah, that's never fun. Definitely not. 

I mean, a huge amount of frustration. And either you're getting really upset, and you're starting to say things that you regret later on. Or it's just making your blood pressure rise from all of this stress. Or you might even be jumping in and doing things for other people, because you need this stuff done, and that person is not doing it. 

And then of course, that can lead you to start to feel like oh my gosh, why does this always happen to me? Why am I surrounded by people that don't do what they say they're gonna do, and they're not doing the job the way they're supposed to be doing it. 

All of that can happen in your business. This can also happen if you're an employee or a leader in a company. And it also happens in your personal life. Like, if you are frustrated with people in your professional life, there's a very good chance you're frustrated with people out in your private life too. So I am going to introduce you to a concept today that can help you to ditch the drama and get everything and everyone working well.

DITCH THE DRAMA, GET EVERYTHING AND EVERYONE WORKING WELL

So this is a special tool. It's called the Drama Triangle and the Empowerment Triangle. And this is going to help you to identify who is playing which role in this relationship, dynamic personal or professional relationship. And what role is it that's contributing to drama, And which role could actually help create empowerment where everybody is actually doing everything they're supposed to and doing it. 

Well, it might sound like that's just not possible, Gretchen. It's like, yeah, actually it is.

DEALING WITH FRUSTRATION

I used these two triangles for a lot of the work that I did, within my professional life as a Business Coach in Biotech. And oh, my gosh, we had a thousand people at that site. So let me tell you, there was a lot of drama to break up and try to get people empowered. I was their coach, I had to know how to do it. 

And I was able to get angry mobs of teams that were dysfunctional, not working well. And then all of a sudden, everybody is working great together. So I can attest to this actually is possible. 

This concept is also something that I use when I'm coaching other people because I can recognize what role they're playing in the Drama Triangle. And I know exactly how to switch them into the role in the Empowerment Triangle so that they're actually making traction and moving forward. So I want to be able to teach this to you and have you start implementing it right away. 

Now first, I want to tell you why I'm choosing to teach you this. Now, many of you already know that I like to use my podcast to help supplement the coaching that I'm doing. So if I'm seeing people that are encountering certain obstacles that either it's a theme, multiple people are experiencing it, or if there's an individual that's experiencing it, and we have not been able to fully address it during our current coaching sessions, I'll create an extra podcast episode to supplement what we're doing in our sessions. 

So I always respect everybody's anonymity. But I will just talk about two of the obstacles that some of my clients are experiencing right now. And how the Drama Triangle and Empowerment Triangle are exactly what they need to know about right now. 

WHEN EMPLOYEES AREN’T PERFORMING

Okay, the first obstacle that some of my clients are encountering, they are business owners that also have employees. And as business owners, they're starting to evolve into a CEO as opposed to the person in the business delivering all of the products and services. So they need to make sure that all of the stuff to run the business is actually working, that the products and services are getting made correctly and delivered correctly, and that there are plenty of clients that are coming in. 

So the business owners, they've been doing this for a very long time, that's how they were able to grow their companies big enough to be able to support having employees, they have enough clients coming in. So there's plenty of work for everybody. And there's enough revenue getting generated, that they can pay employees paychecks. What they're running into, though, is that not all of the employees perform at the same level as the business owner. 

So the business owner, really skilled in all of these different things for the business, some of the employees, they might just be focusing on a few of the things, but they're still not as proficient as the business owner was, or the business owner would like the employees to focus on more things, but they're staying focused narrowly on a few things. 

So of course, there's things that are not getting done. So the impact of the business owner is that the business owner can not advance into that CEO position and do all of the visionary stuff and planning for the future. Instead, they're caught in the day to day stuff. And this isn't what the master plan had available. 

And so frustration is happening, there's a little bit of stress. And they need to know how can they break free of this? 

GOT STUBBORN CLIENTS?

The other obstacle some of my clients are experiencing, is having clients that are not actually doing the work that they're supposed to be doing. So these are coaches and teachers that are helping their clients developing their skill set, developing their ability to do things or helping them to get specific deliverables done or get specific results. 

And so as part of that, they provide a training, and they also provide actionable actions and homework and mindset shifts. And then they have some of those clients that they, the clients may show up to each of the times they're supposed to, but they haven't actually done the work. And they're kind of digging their heels into it. 

And so the business owner gets a little frustrated, because the business owner has shown up and done all of the things they were supposed to do. Why hasn't this person done it? So do they consider letting go of that client? Because it's not an ideal client if they're not doing all the things? 

Or is there another option?

 So both of these are very ripe for using the Drama Triangle and the Empowerment Triangle, but first, you have to know what they are before you can start to apply them. 

So let me tell you all about these. 

THE DRAMA TRIANGLE

Okay, so the Drama Triangle was created by Dr. Steven Cartman. And if you take out a piece of paper, you can draw this; this really easy tool, it's helpful to visualize them. 

So if you draw a triangle, with a Drama Triangle, there are three roles that people are playing. 

VICTIM

So at the bottom left of the triangle is the victim. So this is the person that feels like everything is happening to them, that it's hopeless, this is the way things are always going to be. And sometimes they start to not do things because being in that victim role, it starts to really impact their mood and might bring on some of the depression. And then we know that with depression, it's a lot harder to get your stuff done. 

So, victim is one of them. 

PERSECUTOR

The top of the triangle is where the persecutor is. So the persecutor is someone who believes they know how to do all of the different things. And they're looking at the other two people that are in this Drama Triangle. So the other roles that are being represented, and they're blaming them, like why can't they get that done? It's all their fault. 

And so when you do have someone that is a persecutor that can cause another person to slip right into that victim role, because if they're being blamed for something, then they start to feel like a victim, like this person is, you know, verbally attacking me in some way or making me feel bad. So that contributes to the drama happening. 

RESCUER

So the other role is the bottom right. And that's the rescuer. So the rescuer is the person who typically just wants to have peace, even if that means that they have to jump in and do extra stuff to maintain the peace. So for a persecutor, they usually will not speak up to the persecutor, like if the persecutor saying all of this stuff was supposed to get done. 

Even if it wasn't the rescuers job, or even maybe it was the persecutors job to be doing these things. The rescuer just wants everything to calm down and for people to get along, so they might just jump in and do whatever the task was, just to keep the peace, they may also insert themselves between the persecutor and the victim. 

So they're trying to help the victim to not feel so bad. Also trying to motivate them so that the victim is actually doing the things they're supposed to do. But the rescuer acts as a shield to the persecutor. 

So, if the persecutor is saying all sorts of stuff, the rescuer is diverting their attention to either something completely unrelated so that the persecutor's mind isn't even focusing on the thing. Or they're trying to divert the attention onto them, or another part of the work that wasn't getting done that they know they can do. So that way it protects the victim and it calms the persecutor down. 

Meanwhile, though, the rescuer has taken on way too much extra work, they might be taking on other people's emotions. And so they start to feel a lot of resentment of why do I always have to do all of this stuff, just so that we could have some peace. 

All three of these roles can happen even within one individual. One individual can be their own persecutor, they can be their own rescuer, and they can be their own victim. And in fact, that rescuer, believe it or not actually contributes to the drama. 

And here's why. 

When a rescuer jumps in and does something that a victim was supposed to do that victim role, it is unintentionally reaffirming that the victim is unable to do this or incapable and that victim switches into a fixed mindset thought of I'm not able to do this, I'm such a failure, I need other people to help me I need this person to do it for me. 

So it actually helps the victim to get even deeper in the hole of feeling like a victim. It also gives extra evidence to the persecutor to keep persecuting because they see this other person doing something. 

So then they're comparing the two and judging the victim of well, why can't you do as much as the rescuer is doing? Because the rescuer is not only doing the job they were supposed to do. But now they're doing yours too. 

So it's like look at this superhuman that can do two times the amount of stuff that you're doing. So that is actually keeping the victim in that victim role, and giving more fuel to the persecutor who thinks that all of this is wrong.

So it keeps that drama going. It can happen all within one person. They can be their own persecutor, they can be their own rescuer, and they can be their own victim. 

It can happen with just two people. So even within two people, they can switch between those different roles. So it's possible that someone could be a persecutor and then switch into a rescuer mode. It's also possible that someone could be a victim. And then they shift into a persecutor role. And sometimes that's just reassigning the blame. 

So the only way they found to not feel as bad if there was some other persecutor out in the world, they're getting blamed for something. So they're immediately shifting the blame to someone else, so that they can lighten their emotional load. So they have now shifted from the victim into a persecutor role. So anytime that there's a shift from one role to another, they show up differently, and it can cause the other person to also shift their role. 

Meanwhile, the fact that any of these people have any of these roles is keeping the drama going. And when you have a lot of drama, things are not working, and people are not working, and it doesn't feel good, really for anybody. And it can destroy relationships, it can destroy teams, it can destroy a work dynamic, it can result in something feeling like a toxic environment. 

So you don't want that. So what can you do instead?

THE EMPOWERMENT TRIANGLE

So instead is where the other triangle comes in. And this is called the Empowerment Triangle. This was created by David Emerald. He originally called this The Empowerment Dynamic; so abbreviation is TED 

I like to call it the Empowerment Triangle personally. So Drama Triangle––Empowerment Triangle, so it also is the same triangle, but the roles are different.

CREATOR 

So instead of the victim at the bottom left of the triangle, we have the creator; a creator always thinks about what it is that they actually do want and then what can they create in order to make that reality come true? So they see every problem more as an issue. opportunity to experiment and to create and to try out different things. 

VISIONARY

The persecutor is now replaced with the visionary. So the visionary is painting the picture of what's possible or what could be possible. But they need help to get this all going. So that's where they're actually developing people's engagement and excitement and motivation, because they're creating a vision that includes the needs of everybody. 

And it includes motivation for everybody. So everybody wins, when this vision happens, super inspiring. So instead of blaming, you're inspiring people, and they want to come and do all of those things. 

COACH

And then finally, the rescuer at the bottom right of the triangle is replaced by the coach. So the coach always believes that the other people can actually do the things that they were supposed to do. And so the coach is there to ask powerful questions, and to create extra motivation that will help to unleash the power in these other two people, the other two roles, the creator and the visionary, so that everybody is all working together. 

So everybody believes in the vision, they all get motivated by the visionary painting the vision of what's possible for everybody. And then the coach is there to help the creator to create some of the stuff that goes in the direction of that vision coming true. 

And the coach is also there to help support the visionary, to stay in visionary energy, and to not go backwards into persecutor energy, to remind them and to keep them always focused on that vision. And always asking more questions and more details about the vision. 

Because we know with law of attraction, the more specific that you can be with a vision, the more tangible and the feelings associated with it, the more likely this is going to happen. 

So the coaches, they're helping the visionary to do the vision in the most most successful way. And then also bridging that gap between any of the creators and the visionary, to help them resolve any obstacles that get in the way between where they're currently at and the vision, and to motivate the creator to tap into all of the magic in them to be able to create these wonderful things. 

The coach might also help to flush out some of the details of the requirements of everybody to make sure that this is a win-win-win situation for everybody. 

WHAT DOES EMPOWERMENT FEEL LIKE?

This now starts to feel like empowerment, because everybody is doing a role that's contributing to that winning situation for everybody. It feels good, it's motivating, and a lot of stuff starts happening. 

So then of course, that dopamine burst comes in that yes, I had a success. 

RESCUER SHIFTS TO COACH

Now, speaking of being a former rescuer, okay, recovering rescuer, because sometimes I still do that. And I tried to go over into the coach energy the most. One of the things that's the hardest to do is to give up that dopamine hit of achievement. So as a rescuer, not only could I achieve my own stuff, but I could have achievement by doing other people's stuff, too. 

So having those dopamine hits feels so good. That's why the rescuer does what they do, because they get to wear that superhero cape, it feels good. And people look up to them. 

So then when you're a coach, you're not supposed to actually be doing the hands on work, you're supposed to be asking all of the questions. So that is part of the transition to get used to as well, if I'm not doing it, does that mean I get zero dopamine hits? 

No, that's not it at all. As the coach, you're being curious, you're learning as much as you can from the other people. And you're helping to pick the best questions to ask them, to help them to get those breakthroughs in that motivation. So the coach actually has a big heavy ask, it may seem like all they do is stand around and ask questions. 

But in reality, their brain is working a serious puzzle, because they're paying attention deeply to the person in front of them to understand what are their blocks, what's the root cause of those blocks? 

How can I phrase this question in such a way where they're empowered, they are switching into a growth mindset, and that they can actually experiment and they can learn and they can grow and they can achieve? How do I empower somebody else? 

And so the dopamine hits, when the creator actually experiences the win. So the creator, through the help of the coach has been empowered. And now they're creating all of this stuff on their own. And it's getting that result that everybody wants it, then the coach is back, they're so excited and so proud of themselves, that they were able to help that creator get a breakthrough. 

That is what my friend Donna calls a Soul Burst. Because it really feels like that. 

In fact, I was just watching a Netflix program that's called Never Have I Ever, and there was a character in there who came back in as an assistant swim coach. And he's never been a coach person before. And there's this other guy who is not in great shape who comes to try out for the swim team. And so you've got all of these people on the swim team that are in very good shape, they're really good at swimming. 

And then you get this other person who has tried out multiple times, never makes it, it's a timed race to see who can swim the fastest. And this guy can barely swim to get himself across the pool. So he ends up taking this person on as a one on one client, and the underdog that you would never think would make it actually improved all of their skills under the helpful and nurturing eye of the coach. 

And they were actually able to swim really well and meet the time qualifications and get on to the team. 

So all of a sudden, you see this assistant swim coach who had never helped anyone have a breakthrough before, because he had really always been more in a persecutor role, to be honest, that instead now his soul is bursting because he was able to help this person have this huge breakthrough. 

So never be seen in that victim role anymore. He was the creator, he was able to create this result for himself. So that's where the coach gets the dopamine hit. 

Now how about the visionary? So when they were before in the persecutor role, they would actually have a benefit from being in that persecutor role. If they didn't have a benefit. They wouldn't stay in that persecutor role. So the persecutor, again, is judging or blaming somebody else. 

So when we look back to those two obstacles I mentioned, so the business owners that want to evolve to CEO, but they have employees that are not fully developed yet. And then also the coaches or teachers that have clients that are showing up not having done the work. 

So if they're stuck in a persecutor role, they may not even realize that sometimes they're in the persecutor role, and sometimes they're in the rescuer role. And then they're definitely feeling in the victim role, too. Like, I can't get good employees or I can't get good clients. 

PERSECUTOR SHIFTS TO VISIONARY

Okay, so the persecutor role. Why would they take a step there? What's the benefit mean? Because we can obviously see that it can create drama, if someone is being judged or blamed, they're not going to do any work, like their emotions are going to be down low. And it makes it really hard for them to get motivated to do anything. 

So why would a persecutor want to be a persecutor? What's the benefit, this one comes down to the feeling of being right. So it could also be some righteousness on this is the right way to do it, this is the only way to do it. But also a bit of a status boost, I'm better than them. Because I know how to do this, or I always do my stuff, I always get it right. I always get my stuff done on time. 

All of those feel really good, because you're basically like elevating yourself higher than this other person. And that creates that dopamine hit. So why would they want to be the visionary? And because the visionary is not saying at all, that the other person is not capable, or that they're not good enough or that they can't do any of this or that or that the visionary is better. 

In fact, they're actually saying, Hey, you down there in the previous victim role, I need you. I can't do any of this on my own. My job is as a visionary to paint the vision of what we want to do. 

And then how are you motivating that victim to switch into the creator role? Because you need them mean it does not feel good to admit? I need you because then that actually is like lowering your status and lowering your capability at achieving the vision, okay, so we all know that you can achieve the vision you've already proven in, no need to try to prove that again. 

But as a visionary, when you do motivate other people to do their part, that vision becomes so much bigger, you can achieve so much more, because you have the help of other people. 

So as the visionary, your big, huge soul bursting kind of boom, is when that bigger vision gets achieved, and it gets achieved, because you dreamed it up, you came up with something that nobody else had considered before, you came up with that motivating way where everybody wins, where before, it might have been that only somebody won, but not everybody. 

So you're creating this big, huge thing, and then you're gonna see it all come to life, and that everybody is excited and happy. That ends up being your huge, huge benefit. 

VICTIM SHIFTS TO CREATOR

Okay, so how about the victim? Why would anybody ever choose to stay in a victim role? Well, quite honestly, you get a little extra attention. Sometimes you get an outpouring of support and love or compassion. And that feels really good. I mean, like, you're getting hugs, and you're getting blankets and warm smiles and people saying nice things to you, all of that feels good. 

So why would you want to give that up, you also have that extra benefit of not having to actually do the thing that you were supposed to do. So you get to save your time, your money and your energy and not have to actually do the thing, because you're in the victim role. So that's pretty awesome. That's a benefit to right. So it's like you get all of the warm snuggles, from everybody else, the warm wishes coming. And you don't have to do the thing. You don't have to do the hard stuff. 

THE IMPACT OF THESE ROLES

So why on earth would you ever want to switch out of that? Well, part of it is your emotional load. Because once you're in that victim corner, you still have all of that yucky emotional load to deal with have that fixed mindset of thinking that you can't do any of that. 

So although you might be having some of the positive stuff come in, you also have a huge amount of negative stuff. But when you're in the Empowerment Triangle, now you're developing yourself. And that mindset shift that goes over to a growth mindset; it doesn't mean that you're going from I can't do this to I can absolutely do this, you start off, inching your way there of, well, maybe I can, let's see. 

Or maybe I can find a way that I can modify this so that I could do it. Or maybe there's a creative way that no one has ever done this. And I'm going to come up with that way. Or here's something no one has ever done. But this visionary now has created this huge idea. I want to be the one that makes that happen. 

And so then that huge soul burst of excitement of achievement gets to be yours. Because not only are you the one that got super creative, and you're willing to experiment and try new things, you're the one that had the achievement. And wow, the dopamine hit that comes with achievement is huge. And you start to develop that self belief that you can do anything. 

And let me tell you, when you have that empowerment mindset that you can do anything. Depression starts to just fade away, because you really can't do anything. 

And since I brought up the concept of mood, that's also one of the things that can help the visionary decide they don't want to be a persecutor anymore. When they're in a persecutor role, they tend to have a lot of anger. And if they don't want to feel angry anymore, instead, they want to feel inspired and excited. That might be another reason to switch over to visionary. 

And the coach, their previous role was as a rescuer, they're starting to feel overworked, burnt out and a whole lot of resentment. So if they don't want to feel that anymore, they need to evolve into that coach role. So then they can let go of the resentment they can let go of feeling overworked and burnt out. Instead, they can have more of that balance. And of course, the benefit of seeing other people doing really well. 

WHERE DO YOU SEE YOURSELF?

So where do you see yourself? 

Do you feel like you have some kind of drama in your life? Maybe drama with your employees or drama with your clients. If it feels that way, if you're feeling either some depression or some anger, or some frustration or resentment, that can be a clue as to which corner you're at in the Drama Triangle. 

So first is to figure out, are you the persecutor? Are you a victim? Or are you a rescuer, or a combination of at least two of those for any particular circumstance? So depending on the different circumstances, you might be different roles. But which ones do you tend to gravitate towards? 

And then think about the other people that are also involved in that Drama Triangle? What role were they playing? Were they being a victim, a persecutor or rescuer? So then once you know what your role is, you know what the alternative role is, because you're looking at the empowerment triangle. And the roles are all lining up with the ones that were in the Drama Triangle. 

So the victim becomes a creator. 

The persecutor becomes a visionary.

The rescuer becomes a coach. 

HOW CAN YOU USE THE 2 TRIANGLES TO HELP YOU?

So when you recognize your role, you can look over and say, Well, no, I actually want empowerment for me and for the other people, what role do I need to be instead? So you see that role? And then you think, what is that role? What do they do? And those are the new actions that you start trying to incorporate into your day to day? 

And then as you're thinking about the other person, what role were they in the Drama Triangle? And then what role would they need to be in the Empowerment Triangle? Which role matches up? And then what other role in that Empowerment Triangle helps to support that role of the person that just switched over? Because you can be any of those roles, you can switch between them as needed. 

So oftentimes, as a coach, I will spend time not only being the coach, but also being the visionary, because I'm trying to help people break out of being a victim, and get them into that creator role. Most of the time, sometimes I'm also working with the persecutors to help them get into a visionary role. 

But if I am working with someone that is feeling kind of in a victim role, and I'm helping them get in the creator role, I know that it takes both the role of the visionary and the coach to help them. So sometimes I will take on the role of being visionary. 

And I start talking about that vision of the future, and helping to get all of their emotions and excitement going for that vision. And then I switch over into the coach hat, of asking the questions that will help them to problem solve and get creative on how they can reach that end goal, how they can realize that vision. 

So you switch back and forth, depending on what they need. Most people need a vision first, before they can actually start to implement anything. 

So I am really curious how you will use the Drama Triangle and the Empowerment Triangle to help you. 

I would love to get your feedback, if you would love to have that conversation with me. I invite you to either email me at [email protected], or even send me a Facebook Messenger and just say, Hey, I was listening to podcast number 168 on ditching the drama. And here's how I think I can use these Drama Triangle and the Empowerment Triangle. 

Or let me know if you already have tried it, and how did it work for you. Is there any parts where you're struggling with that? Because it's something that I could help you to figure out how to use this a little bit more.

DREAM SCHEDULE & UNSHAKABLE BUSINESS CO-LAB

And I actually use this tool quite a bit in the Dream Schedule course, that's within the Unshakable Business Co-Lab. And that's because a lot of times, we can't stick to our schedule, because it's getting crashed on by the Drama Triangle, especially if you find yourself in that rescuer role. 

You may end up getting distracted from your day to day schedule, and you're going off and you're rescuing someone else, you're doing something for them or you're rescuing them from their emotions and trying to help them when instead it's getting into the Empowerment Triangle; letting people be responsible for their own part so that you can still do your required schedule that you dreamed up so that you can actually have the business and the life that you love and the revenue that you want. 

So that's one of the things inside of the Dream Schedule course there are several other tools and concepts that I also teach because getting you to your exact dream schedule, take some work because if you are He knew how to do it and you had already resolved all the obstacles, you would be living that dream scheduled today. 

So it's important for us to identify any of the obstacles that are coming up and then apply the right tool or concept to help you have a breakthrough so that you can actually realize that dream schedule. So the Dream Schedule course is just one of the courses inside of the Unshakable Business Co-Lab. 

I help you to achieve getting your business up and running smoothly and profitably. So this can be from your startup, or it can be existing businesses, while putting your mental health first, and I include courses on schedule on creating your products and services on your sales funnels, so that you always have planned predictable revenue. 

I also help you to achieve any goal without jeopardizing your mental health, and how to help you with all of your mental health challenges that might come up. So any of your emotional triggers and how to resolve those.

And then the final one is helping you to become fully booked in your business, selling your products or your services with a waiting list. And so that's the connection factor of teaching you to have the right kind of conversations using your own stories to connect deeply with people. 

So the Unshakable Business Co-Lab is there to help you through all of these aspects of your business. You have online courses, you have twice a week coaching with me, these are group coaching calls where everybody takes turns getting one on one coaching. There's also a Facebook group so that you can interact with the other members of the Unshakable Business Co-Lab and have 24/7 access to me for additional coaching. 

And then I want to make sure that your social well being is always taken care of, and that you have the opportunity to explore collaboration opportunities. So a once a month social call is also included in your Unshakable Business Co-Lab membership. This membership is month-to-month, you can stay for as long as you need or as long as you want. And it's only $149 a month. 

So I'd like to invite you to come and learn more, you can go to my website at myfreedomgrove.com. Go to the Unshakable tab to learn all about the Unshakable Business Co-Lab. Or if you'd like to go via a direct link, you can go to www.myfreedomgrove.com/join. 

So I look forward to supporting you in all ways for your business and your mental health inside of the Unshakable Business Co-Lab. If you have any questions about the Unshakable Business Co-Lab, and you want to see Is this really the right fit for you? You are always more than welcome to schedule a free consultation with me. 

And if you happen to be in San Francisco area, around August 18, you can come and talk with me in person. I'm going to be hosting a booth at the Small Business Expo. And you'll be able to find a link for that in the show notes for this podcast episode. 

So that's the Small Business Expo in San Francisco. And it's happening on August 18, between 10am and 5pm. And there are plenty of opportunities for you to meet with other business experts also to market your business. There's going to be speed networking there as well as meeting up to 3000 other entrepreneurs and learning what each other's businesses are so great opportunity for you. 

I believe it is free for people to come and attend the conference. And if you do come, I invite you to come and talk with me directly. there to answer any questions that you have about your business about starting a business starting any new products and services. 

Anything that you need help on I am there to support you and I would love to see you in person. It's not as fun just being able to talk into a microphone. I love seeing you in person. So hopefully you'll come by. 

All right, my friends. 

I hope that you have a wonderful August week and I will talk with you soon. 

Bye bye. 

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Thank you for listening to My Freedom Grove Podcast. When you are ready to make your dream business a reality and take care of your mental health, I invite you to join the Unshakable Business Co-Lab. This is the mastermind membership you've been waiting for. There's no limits on your imagination, nor your timeline. We're with you every step of the way. To learn more, please visit www.myfreedomgrove.com/join. I'll see you there!